Our guest on The Football Coaching Podcast this week is Tim Murphy of Clayton Valley High School. Coach Murphy has had an incredible run at Clovis East High School and Ygnacio Valley in California running his Double Wing Offense.
Nate and Joe will pick Coach Murphy’s brain about installing the Double Wing and the adjustments he has made over the years to his current incarnation. The Double Wing is a physical, intimidating offense and he has the numbers to prove it. Coach Murphy has led his teams to great success including a record setting 5000+ yard rushing season.
Tim Murphy’s teams have accumulated 9 League Championships and 3 CIF Championships, as well as achieving National rankings and multiple Coach of the Year Awards for Coach Murphy. He is also the author of 101 Double Wing Offense Plays and featured in multiple videos from Coaches Choice.
Find out more about Coach Murphy at CoachTimMurphy.com
Transcript of Episode 21 – Double Wing Offense with Tim Murphy
Joe Daniel: Hi, this is Joe Daniel from Football-Defense.com.
Nate Albaugh: And I’m Nate Albaugh from ChiefPigskin.com.
Joe Daniel: And you’re listening to the Football Coaching Podcast. And today we have a guest who’s going to be telling us a little bit about the double wing offense and he certainly had lots of success with it. We have Coach Tim Murphy with us from Clayton Valley High School. Appreciate your joining us today, Coach.
Tim Murphy: Absolutely. Thank you.
Joe Daniel: We’re going to talk about the double wing today, You built quite a successful program, I know it, at Clovis East. I actually haven’t been able to see you present your double wing before but seen you present your 4-4 defense at one point; really impressed by it. But did want to talk about the double wing today, how that came to be. First of all, tell us a bit about your journey in coaching and how you got to this point.
Tim Murphy: Sure. I actually came back from Santa Barbara and finished my there and a program for all of my junior year. My whole year of being a senior in college is the whole year I hadn’t done any more football for since I was about 9 or 10 years old. When I got back to the East Bay where I kind of grew up, the coaches that remembered me over at High School asked me to be a defensive coordinator. I kind of went in blind but what I did it really made me try to learn the game and back to the fire type of thing. And 2 years later, by the fall, I ended up getting a football coaching job at Ygnacio Valley High School. The school was pretty darn good in the 80s but hadn’t won more than a couple of games in 7 or 8 years and no one else applied. So I guess I got the job that way.
We installed the double wing-T because to me for a school that’s struggling, you need some kind of system that’s been proven. You know, the angle blocks and all that kind of stuff was really good for *inaudible* but what ended up happening was we had such big strong kids and our weight room was off to a pretty good start up the bat that we ended up doing a lot more double tight with our double wing-T. For that reason, I almost felt like we’re changing the base component of it so much that I had to start looking for another offense, and I ended up talking to Jerry Dalton. He’s up in Redding, at Foothill High School and he had just put it in via Don Marcom and I was having a lot of success with the previous school up there.So we kind of traded ideas, he told me what he did, I was telling that we’re doing all that kind of stuff and I felt like what he was doing make a lot more sense for our kids.
We ended up got up the bat and won the first league championship in a long time over Ygnacio Valley and won 3 more after that in championship. And I really have to believe that, I think that it was coming along as a program at the same time so we were having success no matter what we’re running but I really think that’s the one that put us over the top. We went from not being able to compete even with small schools to competing with schools and competing schools like De La Salle and putting points on them all that kinds of stuff. So that really kind of made me realize we’re division 2 school and we’re on the ball and scoring points on some of the best teams in the country; we’re definitely on to something.
Anyway, for that I went down to Clovis, started at Clovis East which is a new high school back in 2000 and stayed with the same offense, same types of kids, and I guess I probably had the most success and won a bunch of league championships.I think another thing that double wing had able us to do. We got act in by the play and a lot of placing up out of our state. We played in Texas several times, and played down Southern California, played Long Beach, there were 5 in the country. You’d know we didn’t have the divisional athlete that you’ve always started seeing in other student sports things and all that. It enabled us to actually go down the road and finally showcase what we we’re doing.
And then last year, they want me to come back to the barrier for the last 3 years. Made the move back to Ygnacio Valley where I originally started my head coaching career and Clayton Valley where my daughter has ended up going to school, opened up about 3 months ago. I ended up moving over there and that’s where I am and that’s where I’ll be for a while or so, and her being as young as she is and entering up to high school. So that’s kind of been my coaching journey, I guess.
Joe Daniel: That’s quite a journey. You broke some records out there with the double wing. Is that correct?
Tim Murphy: Yeah, and I think we still hold it, I’m not sure. As of about 2007, I think it was still held, I’m not sure, I haven’t seen that thing lately. But we had the most resting yard in a single season, which is 5,019 in 1999. So I still think it’s holding but it’s a Northern and Central California record. There’s a couple of teams in Southern California that have had more than that.
We had some kind of yards per carry unofficial average also in I think it was 2003. It was a central selection and I can’t remember what it was. It’s the first record I know is for sure. It was actually been published and all. The other ones, I just heard them from people saying it.
Actually the year 2000 the Wentworth’s on 4th down 47 times and made 38 of them. I heard that was record but unconfirmed. Yeah, that was almost ridiculous. They’re not going to lose. They’re definitely not going to lose at all. And all juniors and their plan of varsity schedule. The offense really fits well of not going for, if possible, it’s lead me on 4th down as well . If there’s ever an option when you really need a couple of yards, it’s it. And all of a sudden when you give play action off of it, gosh, it’s just unbelievable that anybody will do that. So in 4th down, teams are playing solid on aggressive. You can either get the two yards you really need or they’re going to bite so hard on the play action, you can run on some neat pass play in your book.
Joe Daniel: Really impressive. Sounds like he doesn’t punt much either, Nate.
Nate Albaugh: That’s my kind of guy.
Tim Murphy: We’ve actually evolved it to a shotgun double wing now. The one thing I’m going to have over Clayton Valley that I haven’t had in my last two schools since we have some kid about to play football before high school. So we got some kid about to play quarterback, some kid play receivers and skill guys. Especially with the quarterback, you’re so limited on what you can do with him as a runner and a pass in double wing. That put him on the shotgun but still running the base play on a shotgun obviously enables you to pass. And then with your quarterback, he can be back 5 yards as opposed to right behind the center. He can run pretty much every play but rocket sweep in your offense. Plus, the kids see it on Saturday and Sunday. I hate to say it but when parents are even close to what they see on Saturday and Sunday, they feel better about it. And they see this really strange looking offense and even though you’re rushing for 400 yards a game, they still wonder why you’re not passing the ball or why you’re so tight, you know, that kind of stuff. So it’s a little bit of a motivator for the kids, shut the parents up a little bit and it’s been working really well.
Joe Daniel: Yeah, that was one of the questions that I had and just looking at kind of where you’ve been, you said had not very much success. When you took over there, Clovis was a new school. And maybe you know now a little bit, is it difficult to bring the double wing into a school that maybe has had success in the shotgun or had success in another offense, do you think it’d be more difficult to come into a situation like that and install an offense that, like you said, people aren’t probably going to be that excited to see because they’ve never seen it.
Tim Murphy: Right, that’s a great point. When I moved in there, the Clovis situation they were 1 in 9 with all sophomores on JB. Normally your best 3 or 4 sophomores are playing varsity. When you’re an all-sophomore JB team and you go 1 in 9, they were thinking this is basically you’re going to suffer for the next years.
So I came by after that season ended. So they were looking for anything. I mean if I could, play any offense they’ve been very hoping for. I think they knew that what we had done in Ygnacio was a lot then I sold it, you know, the highlight zones and talking about it. What we did over Ygnacio was larger issue for the offense. So they bought it, Ygnacio Valley which, you know, was in situation.
Coming in to Clayton Valley, there definitely had not been in a drought like the fire schools I’ve been in but they’ve never won a CIF Championship and they’ve been open since 1958. And they have had unbelievable athletes go through here. And I think they’re so hungry for a CIF Championship and in 70 years they’ve never won one, they’ve been pretty open to it. The one thing that helps obviously is that the success I’ve had with some other schools kind of helps. So if you’re a new coach going in and haven’t won a whole bunch of games and you go into a school that’s now a losing situation, that would be a tough sell.
Joe Daniel: And we don’t see much double wing at all. Nate, do you see much double wing where you’re at?
Nate Albaugh: Well, there’s a fair amount in our area. Especially if I’m around because I’m always double winging in some way.
Joe Daniel: Yeah, right. Now we have probably two schools that have run it and run it successfully around here. But is it more frevelent out with Don Markham being he’s from California and Jerry Walden. There’s a lot of the top double wing guys, and yourself included, are out in that area. Is it a more common offense?
Tim Murphy: I think it is. You know the one thing about California though is everybody’s so image-conscious out here that it does shy a lot of coaches away from the offense too. So I’m thinking under more sensible state, they care more about winning and how it good it looks like. California, image is everything, it’s almost pathetic. Because we’re such a large state, there isn’t a number of them. But percentage-wise, I wouldn’t think so. I don’t see I have to believe percentage-wise to being more in the Midwest. I’ve done most of my clinics out there, most of the questions I’ve had out there, most of the videos I’ve sold. Indianapolis, Michigan, Ohio, all those places that basically built a reputation on running off-tackle. When football first became popular, and all that kinds of stuff, those guys seemed to understand the concept of “I’d rather win football games than losing a few”.
Nate Albaugh: Coach, what’s the core concepts of what you run. Because obviously there’s a lot of different things you can do out of double wing like the wing-T concepts, obviously you got your George attack your option concepts. And then you’ve got like your, one coach referred to it as the bus knit for double wing, where are you going to go? You know, you got your fullback wedge, you got your student body right, student body left. Which of those is the core of what your offense is?
Tim Murphy: I think the last one you mentioned was the one I was for a long time. And we’ve actually evolved a little bit more to… You know, I’ve put in those play in 98. I called it the Trojan. You’re talking about the student body right, that’s definitely where it’s from. But it’s not the off-tackle version that everybody seems to set their offense up with it. It’s much more outside the wing and it’s kind of a medium hit pause sweep or you’re bringing more people to the point of attack that they can’t handle. Our offense does really come off of that play more and more, I think we’d gotten better at that play. I think I had kid because they played more football or been in the system over longer they could see creases on the run. It’s kind of like an outside zone version for the wingback where he has multiple chance of because of he take it outside yet we’re pulling as many people as possible.
But now our offense seem to be evolving off of that. The crisscross is coming off that really well, our play action pass is definitely coming off, joker, I mean a lot of bootlegs off it’s going to be polars, and some influence plays that probably weren’t able to run because we’re so tight and jumbled together before. So I’d say it’s a little bit more as opposing off-tackle, maybe an off-wing offense which is kind of fun because it adds to bigger plays. We probably aren’t quite as great as getting that first down on the absolute immediate with that kind of concept and a little bit prettier than gruntier, I mean that’s still kind of a grunt offense. So if you’re here to ask what it comes off, I thought we’d say that it really comes off that Trojan play.
Nate Albaugh: Now Coach are you mostly double type still? I heard you mentioned earlier.
Tim Murphy: Yeah. The one thing about this formation though, it’s a lot easier to do the ones the way we’re running, a lot more formations. So our base formation is double type wing right, the fullback’s offset right, and the tailback is offset left. So we’re running everything out of that. And then we’ll do a lot, we’ll take one or two to tight ends and split them up wider, even unbalance it. Then another formation is pretty common as we move the wing around a lot more, almost like an H-pack. So we could move into a double fullback situation as well as a double flankers formation pretty easy. It’s a lot more multiple. Again I’m going away from the trueness of why the offense has been so consistent. But at the same time, I think we got the athlete who can do it. One thing that has actually helped too, it’s almost comical but certain plays and rules on a wrist bands has really allowed me to evolve because now your kids, you know, it’s all there on their form. You know, ninety plays and what their rules are and all that types of stuff.
My biggest thing is, and I know when you saw me on the 4-4 camp I was speaking at, I’ve probably dig this thing home pretty hard. I want kids to not think when they’re out there. I want everything to be a reaction in playing autopilot. That’s why our defense is the way there’s offensively. When you have all your rules and all your plays on a wrist band, it does take a lot of thinking out of it. So now I feel like we can extend our playbook and extend our formations without kids going “who do I block on this?” or “what’s my rule on this?”. So anyway my point being is we probably have about 6 days formation as opposed to 1 or 2 that we had for a long time.
Joe Daniel: Yeah, with the 4-4, I remember having gone into that and came back out and talked to some of our staff guys and said how was it? He said it was great, it was really well thought out, great system, what does he run? I said he runs a 4-4 cover 3. Spot drop, I was just amazed. It sounds like with the wrist bands, I guess I’m a little surprised. I wouldn’t expect the wrist bands to be in a double wing system. But obviously, you’re using him for the rules. Do you ever speed up the offense?
Tim Murphy: We do. I can’t say we’ve officially done it but with 2 camps we’ve been to this summer we’ve done it and oh my gosh, it has really helped us out. If your kids are going to run this offense and they can do it at a fast pace, I think a lot of people would think that in general that’s kind of working against as planned, you know, you’re making the quack go and all that types of stuff. But what it really does is this offense tires defenses out. I mean it’s just because you’re just dealing with so much coming at you and then you got the play action and the faking come on, you really got defensives running all over the place and using all their might to be able to not be pushed backwards. Now you’re doing it at a fast pace. And again, camp situations are different. So we saw defensives absolutely well to give up and kids running off the field and that types of stuff. You could try to get a break.
So I don’t know, I’d like to say that we could do it in the games, it’s going to be able to work the same way in the camp but once we got that thing rolling it was unbelievable. It barely looked like our speeding over going down the field and then we break the big ones. So you can definitely do it with the wrist band, that’s for sure.
Joe Daniel: So even though you’re kind of going away from the, you know a lot of people think of the double wing with the power play, you’re still bringing a ton of people to the point of attack and just pounding. Is it important to, and you talked about the Trojan play being your key play, is it really the focus of the start of a game to establish that play and maybe even if it doesn’t hit early to keep at it?
Tim Murphy: Oh absolutely. It’s the same thing with power. I would use to say, even if power is not working, it’s working and stick with it. That was the biggest reasons I think we were when we played probably those years in a row. They’re D-lined literally, a little over the hundred pound difference on their own line compared to other D-line, compared to our own line. I knew when those kids are fresh, there’s no way will they be able to move the ball. But we counted that power play all the way through to the middle of second quarter and then we saw the move evolve more and more about time we got to the fourth quarter we were able to move the ball pretty good. It was one of those things where I guarantee people on the stands are going to line to run the same damn play because pretty early my *inaudible* said it was still getting those guys tired, they’re still having the force third pack of potty weight forward, taking on a lot of double beams and a lot of street guys tolling at them. Even when Trojan’s not working and even the way that the offense works, off-tackle still works light way off the end. You got to put something up; that’s the one thing. If you go away from the main play, that sets up all you counters passes and influence plays then you really don’t have a system anymore. You just have a grab bag with the plays. I think that’s the one thing that even pro-offenses and spread offense, I think that’s one of the things that hurt you. I think that you got to hang your hat on the one or two plays that set up all your other bigger type plays and that one play that you know you can get at least a good amount of yards when you’re outmatched or outfit to go to the point of attack.
Nate Albaugh: Coach, one thing that… I’ve kind of evolved in my double wing than you’re in. Right now, I’m kind of double wing with wing-T concepts. And I went through a phase where I was doing and running a lot of double type and what I found was by the end of the season and almost all the time I end up with one tight end and one split. And the reason that I went to that was because I was able to, and my staff was able to, we were able to do a better job with one tight end and one split predicting what the defense would do because there was a clearer strength. So my question to you is what are the benefits, because I want to know personally, what are the benefits to stay in a double tight and what are you looking for, from this guy, what are you looking for from a defense that’s going to help you determine where you’re going to attack.
Tim Murphy: The thing about double tight is it doesn’t quite matter what they throw at you quite as much because you’re almost in a safe mode all the time in a sense that you don’t have a whole lot of things that you’re going to lose. And because you’re still powered up, you’re always moving the ball forwards. So you got that safe mode going where even though I might not, I mean wishing defense is that we’re almost comical. It’s just something that coaches here make up, that you’ve never seen before. And it does make it a little prep to practice for. But the one thing also is you get in the beginning of the game and you see what they’re doing to you and then you start just kind of going off to what they’re really trying to stop or who’s coming up field or which way they’re slanting and all that kinds of stuff. It might take us a little bit longer to figure. Not everybody’s lining up in a one attack and a three attack and you know, like you live here, one tight end set. But I think at the same time, what it’s also doing, it takes other people out of what they normally do. So by you wind up on a one tight, you know what they’re going to get but you also know that you’re getting what they’ve been practicing all year too. We line up in a double tight, we know some guys only have 3 or 4 days against to practice against it and they’re not going to be quite as sound, so I definitely throwing more of a curve ball at them while they’re going to have to adjust to you and then you can exploit that. And then what we’re also seeing in guys that come out with 4 or 5 different defenses, none of which I even resemble their base defense and they’re all over the place. Not can we get it, enormous huge plays and nothing we’d rush with 400-500 yards I think because now guys are just playing a guessing game.
The team that’s defended the best was *inaudible* and they came out with the same defense all the time. Even though they went to a 3-3, they still came out in this 4-4 that they’ve always run against us. And they’ve always been the most sound against us because their kids know where to go and know what to do and they don’t guess. They just got their reads and they go at them, their kids react. They take the same philosophy that I have on defense as a general defensive coach and apply if for their offense. So it’s almost kind of funny the way it has worked out. But again, we just, with the exception of one year, we don’t really get a ton of big plays on those guys. It usually comes down to the last drive or last quarters. So anyway, yeah, I agree with what you’re saying and then if you’re asking me, I think we take people out of their norm, their comfort zone, a little bit
Joe Daniel: Is there really a particular front that gives you problems or a particular defense that’s going to give you problems to assist a team that’s doing something that they’re confident in and doing it well, playing a sound defense?
Tim Murphy: Soundly. Yeah. There’s been very rarely a team that we’ve played that has that 4 or 5 D1 athletes from the really counted teams that we’ve not beaten. But there’s been change with almost equal or maybe, you know, around our type of count level but have really done well because those kids are in position, they’re in place, and they’re knowing what to do. I think it’s one of those things that if you were, you got one or two selfish guys on defense, you got one or two guys who are not willing to stick their nose in it. And you got one or two guys that are at position because they have not been playing it all year; you could exploit the heck out of that. There’s been a lot of times that we’ll see one little weakness in their defense and we’ll run the same damn play over and over, just keep beating it up until the well goes dry. I think double wing coaches are generally pretty good at doing that. If we get 15 yards on power, I don’t care if the entire stadium knows we’re running an entire game, we’re running it until next play. So you guys got to stop it, the defense go to stop it before we change. It’s the same kind of thing we see personnel weakness or a weakness in their defense. And the one thing about being even, the one thing about that’s a little tougher about being in a formation that I have in now is we’re not completely balanced. The one thing about being in a double tight double wing is you can attack any whole at any given area with the exact same symmetry as you hit to the left and to the right. And it’s kind of hard to do that when you’re not in a double tight or even change some slit a little bit just to completely hit it with the exact same. So anyway I think that’s one of the things that really helps the double wing to grow.
Nate Albaugh: Coach, every year I’ve run it. Like I said, I’ve come to evolve as I’ve gone. But initially when I first started double winging when I was dealing with is I had one running back that was vastly superior to my others. And when I had him that wing, I clearly wanted to get him the ball the most. So let’s say I was going left side right side wing, just one played the left, one played the right, they knew what I need. Not only did I want to go to the right, I needed to go to the right because that was by far my best kid. So I felt like I was livid on how I was going to get him the ball. When I brought him to the fullback, now I was worried do I have enough plays in my arsenal that are going to suit my very best kid even though I know it’s easier to get my fullback the most. So I guess my question to you is when you get that, when you come to a year where one of your kids is vastly superior to the others, where does he fit into your system and how do you deal with it as you want him to get in to the ball more?
Tim Murphy: Yeah that’s a good point too. We’ve been in I probably more than anything else. When I had this Wilton kid, we put him in I. And you can run the yoyo stuff or your motion and you’re still coming back in the same way the defense should. You always usually don’t have a wing to block from to get the wing on that same side. That’s when you can put on your plan B. But at the same time, what it does, so you got your kid that is so darn good and everybody really knows that he is going to run the one-third direction. That does allow your other kids to now have a little bit more success. And if he actually gets hurt in the middle of the game, the game’s not over. It’s kind of lacking a spread offense or your quarterback is really determined on how good you’re going to be especially to the teams that throw an alignment quarterback if he gets hurt or whatever happens to him. So the one thing about it is I think I got overly caught up in that a little bit and it’s not such a bad thing to have a little bit of unbalanced as far as where you could go because it counterbounces you up if your weaker player is going after the weaker part of the defense or who they’re slanting away from and stuff like that. But to answer your question, you put him at the tailback and (23:33). That’s the best answer I have.
Nate Albaugh: So you wouldn’t stick with your double wing stuff?
Tim Murphy: I can’t say I would because I’m not truly standing with it right now just because of the situation that’s happening. I just think it’s not a bad thing. I think you stay in a true double wing and you got your 4 or 5 200-pound runningback, and you got your 4 or 8 175-pound runningback, and you got them on one side. I don’t think it’d hurt you as bad as I felt when I had the same question you’re asking. It bounces itself out, almost. I guess that’s just kind of the best way to say it.
Nate Albaugh: Well said.
Joe Daniel: Now with your double wing, one of the things there’s always been a criticism, the spread offense was that, and I’m not sure I’m buying this, that when you run a spread offense and then your kids have to go play a double wing, your defense is going to be somehow softer. Do you think that there’s any opposite effect of if your kids are used to playing and practicing against this kind of double wing mentality of just pounding and pounding and pounding that when you get into a, not even a running spread offense but you’re more air raid spreading out type of offense, is it a little bit of a culture shock for your kids?
Tim Murphy: Yeah I think a little bit. But again it’ll work both ways because if you’re playing a spread team, they try to mimic offense, they can do it. And their scout team, it’s going to look horrible. And if they even can do it, they’re going to be soft and they’re not going to do it the same way. Whereas the same thing goes with us, we try to mimic a spread and we look awful. It kind of bounces itself out that way. If it comes down to it, I’d rather have a system that is preaching toughness over anything else because that’s when you carry over to a special team, it’s going to carry over your defense, it’s going to carry over to fourth quarter, and go line situations and all that types of stuff. So I definitely think there’s some things that a certain system in offense can predict of your kids. Because I don’t feel when you play a lot of those zero games and games out of slate, and we see a team that ran a spread or ran a lot of stuff that didn’t really take a lot feasible or getting after all types of feasibility. We really felt like we had a really good chance to win the game because that was just the philosophy of the coaching staff. Even if we wouldn’t know the players that were coming in because it’s midyear, as long as you’re still that same coaching staff, we always felt that we had a greater chance to beat that thing if they ran that type of offense that weren’t feasible. There are some spread teams that are pretty darn feasible too. So yeah, it makes it a little harder to practice. I think there’s some things that you can’t beat and it works the same way for both. It comes down to I’d rather have my kids being pushed to being forced to being more feasible than being able to play and stay, so to speak.
Joe Daniel: Sure. Now you do some consulting too, is that right, for other coaches?
Tim Murphy: Yes, obviously done one in two-day clinics. And it should be a half-day. To one-day clinics, it’s 4 hours of coaching and 4 hours for the kids. For 2-day, it’s 8 hours of coaching and 8 hours for the kids.
Joe Daniel: When you go to these schools, I’m assuming they’re new to the double wing or schools who are already running it?
Tim Murphy: About half. Yeah, that’s pretty even.
Joe Daniel: What’s the biggest concern that you hear from coaches who are switching over to the double wing? Because I know that we would have a number of them.
Tim Murphy: Yeah it’s selling it. I mean, the biggest thing they say is Coach, you go to sell my assistants on it or I got, you know, Johnny so and so that’s really fighting me on this thing, from the kids, from the parents, from the inspiration, it’s selling the offense. And again it’s one of those things that you just don’t see on Saturday and Sunday. It’s a tough sell. That’s one of the biggest optional the coaches seem to have. And it’s a kind of a shame because the bottomline is, especially at the high school level blow, it really, for the most part, unless you’re out of school and extremely skilled, and you have D1 kids coming in and out all the time. But if you’re at the average high school or so, all the way down to the lowest level of youth football, I think between you and I, you know it doesn’t really matter what system you run. You have a system and you’re not running too many plays and it enables you to focus on blocking, tackling, shedding blocks, and taking care of the football, you’re good. It’s such a shame that people are so caught up in scheme and plays on the *inaudible* and the last male on the pencil wins stuff. But that’s the kind of stuff that I’ll sell for those, the same thing I’m telling you is what I believe, but it’s also what I’ll have to sell with the kids on, coaches on, and things like that. But the switch over towards the kids actually running the offense, I think with the exception of not playing pad level down and playing snap the whistle, it’s a pretty easy transition. As far as running itself. But the biggest thing that I noticed is guys that come from the passing offense is more of a pro-type style of offense, it’s pad level and just horrendous. I know it has to be that they’ve been practicing fast blocking with more than the ratio of run blocking and that’s one of the biggest things I tell coaches. I’d say, look, did you allow this to happen? You guys are going to get freaking drilled. It doesn’t matter how big your running backs are or what kind of system you’re running, if you don’t have good pad level one a 1 first offense, it’s over.
Joe Daniel: Yeah, that kind of is a side, we’ve talked about we run a spread offense and our kids all go to a 2-point stance. The other day, we put in an I formation and head coach said he wanted the offensive lineman to be at 3-point stance and it was the ugliest thing. They look horrible!
Tim Murphy: Yeah, 3-point stance is an awkward stance and I always tell our kids it’s about as powerful a thing as you can be in. Why compromise it on your first step and completely unquota all your quotas if we’d make contact. It’s like if you’re going to jump, you load your legs and you bend your legs as far as you have to bend of the jump and play try to grab the rim. You wouldn’t bend your legs to get down and jump and then extend them halfway, and then try to jump. You’d lose more natural power. The same thing with kids don’t say is closed up in their stance on that first step as they are on the original stance. I think teams have passed lock a lot on spread zone teams. And I totally understand why. It’s not really the coaches’ fault, it’s what you guys are focusing on. Because you, like me, we don’t have so much time. You got to focus on what’s going to help your offense if you run run. When you try to make a transition like you use it with the I or kids going to a whole new offense, that’s the biggest off school that I see when I did the clinics on camps.
Joe Daniel: Yeah it was definitely an awkward, awkward transition for the first day. These haven’t been in in a while and we’re toying with putting them in a 4-point stance because it’s just a short yard package for us.
Tim Murphy: You said 4-point stance?
Joe Daniel: Yeah, 4-point.
Tim: Absolutely. I think that’s a good idea because now they’re forced to stay low.
Joe Daniel: Absolutely. Coach, I really appreciate it. I think that this has been a great talk about the double wing. Nate, do you have anything else before we go?
Nate Albaugh: I have a million things but I don’t think I can keep them within the time limit. But it was just great to talk to you, Coach, and hear all your philosophies. I’m making my own notes here on things I can take back. I think that biggest thing just pad level. One thing we do with our kids, and I’d be interested to see, to hear, as a closing remark for a new coach on how you preach it and how you hold your kids accountable to low pad level. We just kind of started a little thing in practice that the highest man on the offensive line after every play has the quickly do 5 up-downs. Or if we have 6 good linemen, highest man after every play is out. So they’re kind of rotating through and that’s one thing we’d use to hold our kids accountable to stand low. What’s something that you use to keep your kids accountable staying low when they fire off the ball.
Tim Murphy: Probably the same sort of thing, probably not quite as exactly what you’re saying. The biggest thing that we get our kids to play low and we’d taken such a long progression and it tunes up things that we take the most time on are blocking and tackling. Obviously, the biggest thing on the blocking and tackling is your step before you’re going to block and your step before you’re going to tackle. The one thing about blocking, especially if you’re an offensive lineman, you know you’re going to block the gun at second step. So our first step, we preach over and over, and they’re not allowed to pick up, I mean their back has to be parallel on their first step, their chest trying to touch their knee on their first step. And reload the arm is kind of old-school stuff but we don’t load quite as much as we used to do. I almost notice that when you overload kids’ arms, it actually pops enough a little bit. So as long as their arms are outside the thighs, and they’re nice and loaded, and their chest is over their knee, and their eyes are up, and their back is parallel, we’re ready to move on. But until that point, Coach, it’s over and over and over, and I keep telling the kids as much as your legs are burning, you guys can just be alright as a squad, then we’ll move on to the next step. And then as soon as we watch film or we can dive pad level, we either stop practice and go right back in arms progression or the whole next day we’re going back to the progression. And they don’t like it. That progression sucks. It’s like sitting and your legs are burning and it’s hell and it’s really not a whole lot of fun. So that’s kind of our up-down threat right there is they’re going to have to condition by staying in that same division over and over and taking your one step with your left foot and a down block to a base block or a reef block. But we’ll do that and we’ll do the same thing with tackle. I guess our punishment is and we’re going to reteach the Will everytime the Will gets screwed up. They don’t have the chance to get out of it. But I think what you said right there is really good. And when you got your cowboy collector and when you pause that thing on the first step, if every kid is not parallel, and you guys could just put a check there, and it’s 5 up down, so we’re done watching the film, you guys have 65 up downs because you messed up this amount of time. But the one thing about kid, you don’t hold them accountable. And I even noticed with camp. It’s spring ball I had them doing. And also when we go to camp and I’m focusing on other things, the pad level started getting high again. So we’re reteaching it again right now as we speak.
So I think if you really have an offense read, you don’t have to run a ton of plays, you can do that. But if you started having that offense where every week you put in new plays, you can’t do that and won’t as a coach, you will not revisit that technique. And then by the time you get to the playoffs, you’re letting your kids get away with things, you won’t even let them get away from spring ball. You’re not holding them accountable for all those little things that you said were important 4 months ago because you’re having to focus so much time on what play you put on this week and what screen you’re going to run.
So anyway, my point being is that as a coach, you just got to make sure that you’re always going back to it and you just hold them accountable to some kind of standard would have to do some feasible punishment if you doing incorrect.
Nate: Man, that’s fantastic.
Joe: Yeah, really great stuff, Coach. We absolutely appreciate it. Going to let you go back to work here. I know Nate’s got a big 7-on-7 event. I’m sure he’s excited.
Tim: You know, you got to worry about pad level there.
Nate: That’s right. (Laughter)
Joe: I think we’re finally done. If they call me and tell me we have another 7-on-7 schedule I may just retire.
Tim: I understand that. We beat De La Salle on the passing tournament the other day and they’re obviously the best footballprogram that ever lived. And I told their kids, hey it doesn’t matter. We play, I’ll tell you this one and now we’re all juniors, we played the team in a passing tournament and they’d be about 30 in the passing and 4 touchdowns in passing tournament. When they’re playing the real season, they’re much harder to beat. We had to take a knee on the 3 archline and scored 80. So those things were a different gig. They’re fun but they can also give your kids some bad habits especially when you’re passing it. But they’re a lot of fun.
Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. You guys have really good questions. Hopefully I answered something for some people out there. Anytime you guys want me again, just give me a call. It’d be great.
Joe Daniel: Absolutely, Coach. Now is there any way if coaches want to find more about you, find some of your books, etc. Anywhere they can go for that?
Tim Murphy: Yeah absolutely. CoachTimMurphy.com. It’s been awhile since I’ve even done it. So CoachTimMurphy.com or firstname.lastname@example.org is my email. So either way. The website is CoachTimMurphy.com, the email is email@example.com. So either way would be great, either way you could get a hold of me.
Joe Daniel: Great, Coach. We certainly appreciate it, enjoyed it. Goodluck with your season and thanks a lot.
Tim Murphy: Alright, you too. Thank you Coach, appreciate it.
Nate Albaugh: Thanks, Coach.
Joe Daniel: Thanks for listening to the Football Coaching Podcast. Don’t forget to subscribe on iTunes to get the latest episodes and leave a review for us as well. You can find out more at FootballCoachingPodcast.com.